Market realities: navigating regional differences and subscriptions.

# Community of Trust — TRILOGI with Marius Rossell

Jean-Marc Noël: What about financial security for online shoppers in Spain? Is it something that's important for them? I mean making sure they're not losing their money when buying online.

Marius Rossell: A few years ago, yes, it was an issue. But now I think this worry has almost completely disappeared. And moreover, with Trusted Shops they have this warranty that they perhaps don't have with other solutions.

Jean-Marc Noël: Exactly. Exactly.

Marius Rossell: That's a plus, and for me this is the key point.

Jean-Marc Noël: Community of Trust with Jean-Marc Noël. Today's guest: Marius Rossell, CEO and founder of TRILOGI.

Welcome to Community of Trust, the podcast where successful online businesses share real-world experiences and proven strategies to help you take your e‑commerce business to the next level.

I am Jean-Marc Noël. I'm the co-founder of Trusted Shops, and today I'm speaking with Marius Rossell.

Marius is the CEO of TRILOGI. TRILOGI is one of the largest e‑commerce agencies in Spain, with more than 25 years of experience. So basically, you started when we also started with Trusted Shops.

Welcome, Marius, to the podcast.

Marius Rossell: Good morning, Jean-Marc. Good morning. Thank you very much for interviewing me today. It's a pleasure.

Jean-Marc Noël: Marius is extremely knowledgeable about the Spanish market.

So today in this episode we'll be talking about trust, and we'll be talking about the market, especially the Spanish market in the e‑commerce segment.

With all your experience, you'll walk us through everything you did with TRILOGI. And of course TRILOGI has been a Trusted Shops partner for a long time now — 12 years.

So you've seen many challenges, and I'm really thrilled to hear your insights and what you think.

The very first question is: tell us a little bit more about TRILOGI. How did you start the company, why, and what makes you unique?

Marius Rossell: Good question.

Now it's easy to explain how I started this.

The name TRILOGI is basically because it's my third business attempt.

When I was younger, I had already tried two businesses.

The first one was actually quite good. It's funny because I imported Dragon Ball products from Japan to Spain.

Jean-Marc Noël: There was the Dragon Ball hype here.

Marius Rossell: Exactly. I was an importer.

Jean-Marc Noël: So you were 15 or 16?

Marius Rossell: Yes, I was 15 or 16 years old.

And actually it was pretty successful within the range of business I could do at that age.

Then the second one was something else. In the end, it didn't really work out. And the third is this one.

Jean-Marc Noël: I think it's also important to learn how and why things work, and probably those were good experiences that eventually led to TRILOGI.

Marius Rossell: Yes.

At the end, I saw the need for buying things online.

At that time, imagine 1997 or 1998, the only things you could really buy online were mostly in the US. There were only a few shops in the US.

I remember that I bought a few things for the company I used to work for, and then I said: "Oh, that could also be a good opportunity to launch this in Spain."

Then, in 1999, around January or February, I started building software.

When I finished the software, I said: "Okay, now it's time to launch it."

That was at the end of 1999, in December.

So now it's 26 years.

Jean-Marc Noël: So the basis was really technology for you at that time.

Marius Rossell: It was technology, yes. I have a tech background.

Then we continued developing.

The first years were very hard.

I don't know if it's nice to say, but I set up the company before Google, and look where Google is and look where I am. There's nothing to compare.

Well, perhaps also because we are in Spain. Spain is a smaller market.

If I had set this up in the US, probably I would be very big — or perhaps I would have disappeared. You never know.

Jean-Marc Noël: You never know.

But you already have more than 25 years of experience in the Spanish market.

So tell us a little bit about the journey of building this company.

What were your biggest challenges? Maybe your biggest failure or your biggest success?

How did you manage to create one of the largest agencies in Spain?

Marius Rossell: Constancy, persistence — I think that's the key.

And trustworthiness.

I think that's something we share here.

TRILOGI is a service company.

Then we also have Logic Commerce, which is the software company, but now they are completely separated.

Being a service company, customers need to trust you.

You need to provide the best service you can at every moment.

It's not easy because our services are based on people.

So we need to take care of our people as much as we can, because they need to take care of our customers as well.

It's based on trust.

Jean-Marc Noël: When you started the company, how many people were you?

Did you start by yourself?

Were you in your parents' garage? How did you do it?

Marius Rossell: No.

I started with a friend of mine. He was a designer.

He gave me some space.

At that time I was working for another company because I had to earn money. I had to eat and survive.

And I was young, so I also wanted to go out and party.

But on the side, I started working on this.

Then I hired the first person.

A friend also invested in my idea, so he had another space, and then we hired another person.

Little by little, we started growing.

Jean-Marc Noël: Were you always earning money? How did you do that?

Marius Rossell: I think we broke even in 2006 or 2007.

That was the first time we broke even.

Until then, I was putting money in from my own pocket.

Some of the money I earned in my real job, maybe half of it, I invested in my company to keep moving the company forward because I believed it would work.

Jean-Marc Noël: I think that's a very important lesson.

It's dedication. It's also believing in what you do and doing everything you can to make it happen and make it successful.

That's very impressive.

Marius Rossell: Along the way, in those first six or seven years, and later on as well, every company has ups and downs.

I wanted to throw in the towel, of course.

You're investing, and you don't know if it's going to succeed.

But finally I can say that after 26 years, it worked.

Jean-Marc Noël: For our listeners today, I think that's so important.

Sometimes you see a big company and think: "Oh, that's easy, everything is fine."

But every time I talk to a founder or somebody like you who created something, there are phases where you just want to throw everything away.

But you stick to your dream and you stick to what you're doing, and eventually you succeed.

That's one of the biggest lessons we can learn from entrepreneurs like you.

Work hard and play hard.

I think David Guetta mentioned that once. I love that sentence.

Now let's talk a little bit about Spanish e‑commerce.

You have seen a lot in the Spanish e‑commerce market. I know you're not only in Spain; you've also expanded abroad and into China.

But let's talk about Spain.

If I'm an online retailer and I'm thinking about entering the Spanish market, what would be your recommendation? What are the challenges you see?

Marius Rossell: I would expand this to other markets as well.

Every market has its own specificities because every single market is culturally different.

Not only because of the language, but also because of the regions.

Spain is perhaps one of the countries where these regional specificities are very strong.

Here in Catalonia, where we are now, we speak Catalan and the way of doing things is different from Madrid, Andalusia or the north.

In the north we have Galicia and the Basque Country, and they are very different as well.

Jean-Marc Noël: So you're suggesting that if I want to sell to Spain, I need to pay attention to regional differences?

Marius Rossell: Yes.

Selling in Catalonia is not the same as selling in Galicia, the Basque Country or Madrid.

Consumer behaviour is different.

Jean-Marc Noël: Can you give one example?

What's different, for instance, between Barcelona and Catalonia on one side and another region?

Marius Rossell: For a foreign brand entering Spain, consumers often need to see the brand physically on the street.

Jean-Marc Noël: Ah, okay.

Marius Rossell: If they see it only online, it may not feel trustworthy.

So building brand awareness is expensive.

And not only online, but offline too.

We have seen lately, not only in Spain but also in other markets, that when a brand enters a country, they launch physical stores in the main streets.

Here in Barcelona, for example, on Passeig de Gràcia or Portal de l'Àngel.

Then after one, two, three or five years, they may close them because by then they've built the brand and entered the market.

I think this is quite general, not only for Spain, but Spain has its own particularities.

Jean-Marc Noël: Of course.

We're in Barcelona today, and I really want to get a feel for the Spanish consumer and Spanish shopper.

Overall, are Spanish consumers comfortable buying online?

Do they need a high level of confidence?

What is important for a brand to show in order to attract new customers or retain existing customers?

Marius Rossell: Spain has one of the things that the whole of Europe loves.

Jean-Marc Noël: The sun.

Marius Rossell: The sun, yes. The weather.

Jean-Marc Noël: I noticed that today. I was looking at this strange yellow ball in the sky — something we don't see in Cologne.

Marius Rossell: My wife always says the sun here always wins.

There may be clouds, but at the end of the day, you get the sun.

And what does that mean?

People love going shopping. People are on the streets, not only in the bars but also shopping.

So the connection between online and offline here is super important.

If there's a place where omnichannel really happens, it's here.

A lot of the e‑commerce projects we set up are omnichannel, connecting online and offline very closely.

That's one of the characteristics we have here.

Spain was perhaps one of the later countries where consumers started buying massively online.

It is happening and it will continue to happen, but perhaps less than in some other countries because of the weather and because people like being out in the streets.

Jean-Marc Noël: That's interesting.

Now, you mentioned that it's also a matter of making sure that the brand is trustworthy.

What is the value of reviews in the Spanish market?

Are people looking at them?

And if yes, what would you recommend for an online retailer?

Marius Rossell: It's a must.

Definitely a must.

Although sometimes it's tricky.

We know how ratings work, especially for bars, restaurants or hotels.

Sometimes people don't complain while they're physically there.

They don't face the issue directly in person, where perhaps you could solve it.

But ratings and comments are important because people trust them.

And there are different circles of trust.

First family, then friends, then influencers or key opinion leaders, and then other people.

So our customers — retailers and also B2B companies — should have reviews, control them very well and act on them.

Jean-Marc Noël: Now let's speak about AI.

We're witnessing a massive shift.

AI is changing the way people search, the way people compare products and even the way people buy.

What do you think is the impact of AI, especially in the Spanish market?

And what would you recommend to online retailers who are asking: what does that mean for my brand in this new world of AI? What should I do?

Marius Rossell: First: don't go crazy about it.

Big companies want us to go faster.

They try to get into our heads and make us think that if we're not there immediately, we'll miss the moment.

Fortunately, I don't think things happen quite like that.

Consumers and brands set the pace too.

I compare this with other technologies that appeared over the years.

Facebook Shop, Instagram Shop, the metaverse — all of them were supposed to kill everything.

And many didn't.

I don't know exactly how this will develop.

Apparently, AI will be important.

What we're already seeing is a shift from Google to AI tools such as Perplexity and others because more and more traffic comes from AI.

But whether the actual purchasing process will happen inside the AI is something we still don't know.

I'm not sure at all.

Perhaps the biggest competitor to Amazon is OpenAI, but not necessarily the retailer.

Otherwise retailers and brands lose that connection with consumers.

Jean-Marc Noël: What would you recommend concretely?

Many retailers are thinking: I'm not sure what I should do.

Are there tools I need to look at?

You mentioned traffic coming from Google is changing.

We've noticed, for instance, that since Google introduced AI Overview, click-throughs on the links have roughly halved compared with what they used to be.

And if you think about the incredible adoption of OpenAI — I think they took around two months to hit 100 million users — we've never seen something like that before.

A lot of our listeners are thinking: what should I do right now?

Do you have a recommendation, or something they should look at?

Marius Rossell: There is a whole range of AI tools in the market right now, for B2B and B2C.

I would say more for B2B than B2C.

We're getting very specialised in that.

Two years ago, when AI really exploded in the market, I told all my staff: we need to hack the AI tools.

We need to use a tool for every single thing we're doing, to improve productivity and so on.

And our customers, both B2C and B2B, should use them as much as they can.

Jean-Marc Noël: Do you have a favourite tool? Something you could recommend so people can check it after the podcast?

Marius Rossell: Not one specific tool.

The reason is that for every brand or company there may be a different tool that fits them.

There isn't one tool that does everything.

Jean-Marc Noël: I think that's clear.

It's more about trying things and getting a feel for what's going on.

It's not: "I've got the tool, that's it."

You need to learn.

There is so much development.

For instance, we've been experimenting with development tools such as Cursor and Lovable, and we've managed to create applications within weeks that would have taken ages before.

There are also great tools today if you want to create text or a marketing campaign.

There are many tools that can already be used today.

Maybe after the podcast we can send a few tips to people.

Marius Rossell: At Logic Commerce, we have our own AI.

We're training our own AI to do specific things in our back office that help customers operate faster and better and improve productivity.

You mentioned Lovable before.

In the end, Lovable does what we all want: setting up a frontend easily and fast, with some restrictions, obviously.

With Logic Commerce, we want to go beyond those restrictions and be able to build a frontend completely through conversational chat.

Jean-Marc Noël: Okay, so the first recommendation is: check Logic Commerce.

Good.

Now let's look at something else that's very important for all our listeners: mistakes.

Looking back at your career, what was one of your biggest mistakes?

What did you learn from it?

Marius Rossell: There are many.

Jean-Marc Noël: Let me put it another way. If you look back, would you do something differently?

Marius Rossell: Yes.

I would have split TRILOGI and Logic Commerce much earlier.

I did it in 2018.

Jean-Marc Noël: You'll have to explain that a little bit.

Today TRILOGI has several businesses?

Marius Rossell: Yes.

TRILOGI is the agency. Logic Commerce is the e‑commerce software.

For many years they were together.

Only TRILOGI installed Logic Commerce, and Logic Commerce could only be installed by TRILOGI.

So they were very closely connected.

In 2018 we decided to split them, in a friendly way.

Then TRILOGI started getting more partners and working with platforms such as PrestaShop, commercetools, Shopify, WordPress and others.

We're official partners and have high partnership levels with some of them.

And Logic Commerce started getting other partners, including competitors of TRILOGI.

I think that's healthy for Logic Commerce too.

Now we have more than 15 partners at Logic Commerce implementing and distributing our solution.

So perhaps my biggest mistake is that I should have done that much earlier.

You want a clear focus for each area.

Jean-Marc Noël: Let's talk about mistakes you see when you're looking at other online stores.

You've seen a lot of them.

What would you say is really not a good thing to do?

Marius Rossell: Many people think they have a brilliant idea for some special functionality.

They invest a lot of money and sometimes they don't listen to experts.

Not only at TRILOGI — I know other agencies as well, competitors and partners, and we all see the same thing.

Then companies invest a lot of money in that idea.

Jean-Marc Noël: Give us a concrete example.

You don't have to name the store.

Something where you look at a store and say: they did this because they thought it was a brilliant idea, but it didn't work.

Marius Rossell: A long time ago, for example, subscriptions.

Many people thought subscriptions would work.

I still think most of the time they don't.

Some products are simply not suitable for subscription.

It's not Netflix.

I'm not going to buy ten pairs of socks every three months.

Jean-Marc Noël: That's interesting because we have a customer in Germany called Snocks, and Snocks does exactly that.

At least in the beginning, they were very successful with it.

I think they now do nearly €100 million a year.

So it probably depends on how you position the products.

Marius Rossell: Exactly. Different market.

Perhaps this works in Germany.

Jean-Marc Noël: And that's why I keep coming back to the Spanish market.

When you look at a typical Spanish consumer, what do they expect when they go onto a website?

Do they want to see big pictures?

Is there anything specific like that, or does it depend?

Marius Rossell: It depends on the sector.

Fashion should show beautiful pictures.

We have a very good customer at TRILOGI and Logic Commerce called Sosa, which is a big brand here.

The pictures they use are super high-resolution and they focus strongly on that.

There are other brands as well.

But in other sectors, for example packaging or boxes, they may also have nice images but they focus more on specifications.

Clearly: what exactly am I buying?

So it really depends on the sector, and it depends on the market.

You need to understand the culture when entering Spain.

Jean-Marc Noël: What about financial security for online shoppers in Spain?

Is that important for them — making sure they're not losing their money when buying online?

Is that different from a few years ago?

Marius Rossell: A few years ago, yes, it was an issue.

But now I think that worry has almost completely disappeared because the security we have with modern payment tools is much better.

And with Trusted Shops, of course, there is the additional warranty that they perhaps don't have with other solutions.

Jean-Marc Noël: Exactly.

Marius Rossell: That's a plus.

And brands need to know that, but more importantly it needs to be shown on the website to the final customer.

The customer needs to see that if something happens, there is someone there who will take care of it.

For me, that's the key point of showing the benefits that Trusted Shops gives the final customer.

Jean-Marc Noël: We're nearly at the end of our conversation already.

So let's take the time machine together.

If you were starting fresh today, what would you focus on?

We have listeners who are thinking about creating a business or creating an online business.

If you were starting now, what would you do?

Marius Rossell: Wow.

Jean-Marc Noël: If it's a secret, you don't have to tell us.

Marius Rossell: No, no.

I actually still have one project on my desk that I've been thinking about for many years.

I think I would do that project.

I can't tell you what it is.

Jean-Marc Noël: Okay.

But obviously it's online.

Marius Rossell: Yes, that's my expertise, so it has to be online.

And it's something that maybe I will do one day.

Jean-Marc Noël: Great.

It's a little frustrating because we don't know exactly what you're doing.

But you can give us one hint.

Marius Rossell: It's about loyalty.

Jean-Marc Noël: About loyalty. Okay, good.

Marius, it was really great talking to you today in Barcelona, on your home turf.

And I'm so glad I had the opportunity to finally see the sun here in Barcelona.

That's a wrap for this episode of Community of Trust.

I hope you picked up valuable and practical tips that you can apply to your online store.

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast and of course leave a review, because it helps us reach more online merchants and partners.

You can find more insights and valuable resources at TrustedShops.com and, of course, become part of our community.

Marius, thank you very much for this conversation.

It was really great to see how you've developed your business and to learn a few insights about the regional specificities in Spain.

Thank you for listening, see you in the next episode, and best of luck with your online business.

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